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Post by Toronto Raptors on Oct 12, 2009 16:22:42 GMT -5
I think Jameer Nelson desrves an increase, he's currently a 75. He put up pretty good numbers (16.7pts 3.5rbd 1.2stl pg) and was voted to the all star game. I think he should be around an 80 to an 81. Putting him in perspective with some other young PGs
Rondo: 83-84, after seeing this past years playoff of nearly averaging a triple double he's clearly the best of the bunch. Harris: 81-82, shown he can be the starting PG but I'd like to see him consistently improve before he gets a better rating. Nelson: 80-81, IF he was healthy through out the playoffs and performed the the level he did in the regular season he definitely be higher but until he can prove he can stay at that level this rating is good. Calderon: 80, arguably the best passer of the bunch but also the worst defensive player of the bunch.
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Oct 12, 2009 17:29:29 GMT -5
I think Jameer is in the level below those three guys... rondo/harris/calderon are all better than jameer and should be rated in the 78-82 range. Jameer is a level down in the 75-77 range. If jameer gets an increase it should be a modest 1-2 point boost and not a 6 point boost... 75 is about right for him though to be honest as he isnt in harris/rondo/calderon caliber just yet
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Post by Toronto Raptors on Oct 12, 2009 18:12:13 GMT -5
I honestly don't see how Nelson should be anything lower then and 80, looking up the stats he did just as well as Rondo, Harris, and Calderon and is the only one of them to be an all star.
Nelson ;0.503FG% 0.453:3P%-0.887FT%-0.5OFF-3.0DEF-3.5RPG-5.4APG-1.2SPG-0.1BPG-.98TO-2.90PF-16.7PPG
Rondon ;0.505FG%-0.3133P%-0.642FT%-1.3 OFF-4.0DEF-5.3RPG-8.2APG-1.9SPG -0.1BPG-2.6TO-2.40PF-11.9PPG
Calderon ;0.497FG%-0.4063P%-0.981FT%-0.2OFF-2.6DEF-2.8RPG-8.9APG-1.1SPG-0.1BPG-2.10TO-1.70PF-12.8PPG
Harris ;0.438FG%-0.2913P%-0.820FT%-0.4OFF-2.9DEF-3.3RPG-6.9APG-1.6SPG-0.2BPG-3.07TO-2.40PF-21.3PPG
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Oct 12, 2009 18:28:23 GMT -5
I am going to put it like it has been told to me many times... you cant just look at the stats in a snapshot of a given year... if you do that, the ratings look absolutley absurd...
For example: take 3 power forwards last year
Kevin Garnett - 97 15.8 ppg 8.5 rpg 1.2 bpg Antawn Jamison - 84 22.2 ppg 8.9 rpg 0.3 bpg David Lee - 77 16 ppg 11.7 rpg and 0.3 bpg
Explain this... Should david lee be rated higher than KG? Where does antawn stand in this. If i am making my team i want KG first, then twan, and then D. Lee.
Same goes with the PG question. Out of those 4 pgs- I take rondo first, then harris, then calderon, and then nelson----- and this is how their ratings should be...
Stats for a given year cannot fully explain ratings. The ratings for these pgs is appropriate and correct in my view... differing opinions are fine and its up to the admins to make the changes, but jameer shouldnt be over a 76-77
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Post by Toronto Raptors on Oct 12, 2009 18:44:42 GMT -5
Stats say a lot (especially when you take FG%,3P%, and FT% into consideration). Something you seem to be ignoring is the fact Nelson was voted to the all star game which to me shows he made an positive impact on his team helping them win. I wouldn't say he's better then Rondo, maybe not Harris but I'd put him slightly above Calderon.
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Oct 12, 2009 18:53:38 GMT -5
Harris also made that all star game, alongwith Mo Williams. Mo Williams might get a point or two increase to 78-79 which is what Jameer should get. Im not saying Jameer shouldnt get an increase, i am saying that it should only be 1-2 pt increase. To give him a 5 pt boost and put him in the class with those guys isnt right.... Harris, Calderon, Rondo from 80-83 is correct with Nelson a 77 would be perfectly acceptable
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Post by Toronto Raptors on Oct 12, 2009 19:03:10 GMT -5
Nelson is better then Mo Williams, if Nelson was on a team with Lebron his numbers would sky rocket. He deserves more then a 1 -2 point increase and very much is in the class of guys Harris, Calderon, Rondo. (I'd say he isn't better then Rondo or Harris but is a player that can create more offense for himself then Calderon and is a better defender too.)
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Post by Atlanta Hawks on Oct 12, 2009 23:52:13 GMT -5
dallas ur a dumbass. stats is not every thing KG is way better defender and all round than jaimson here is why KG rated higher.
block jaimson under 30 D aware jaimson under 50 strenght passing steals and alot of things KG rated way higher.
and stop comparing players and rate them according to their stats... its so stupid
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Oct 13, 2009 7:43:39 GMT -5
Atlanta--- that is exactly what i am saying. STATS ARE NOT EVERYTHING! Read my post correctly and you will see that.
Toronto was throwing out the numbers and i said that you cant fully explain the numbers with stats. He was the one trying to compare ratings with stats, not me- and i said that you couldnt do that.
Then i posted an example of different rated guys with their stats and showed how it doesnt work out. KG is clearly better than those two guys that are rated lower, even though the stats for last year do not back that up..... I am agreeing with you 100%.
Now if you correct your post to say " Toronto ur a dumbass" that would make more sense, because you and I are saying the exact same thing.
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Post by Atlanta Hawks on Oct 13, 2009 8:45:52 GMT -5
oh sorry man I meant Toronto lol
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Oct 13, 2009 9:13:07 GMT -5
haha- its all good man, just wanted to clarify that you and i were on the same exact page
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Post by Miami Heat on Oct 13, 2009 9:49:58 GMT -5
Nelson should be like a 77 maybe, Orlando would have done better if they played Rafer in the playoffs...that and the fact this is was his "first break out year" (which he didn't even play half of it) we have to be careful.
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Post by Dallas Mavericks on Oct 13, 2009 10:37:20 GMT -5
yeah i agree miami.... i think a 75 is fine for him this year. if he does something great next year, then bump him by all means
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Post by Los Angeles Lakers on Oct 13, 2009 10:41:28 GMT -5
Nelson's team went to the finals without him, and as for Rondo yeah nice job putting a triple double on a rookie and at the same time getting thrashed by Derrick Rose.
Rondo is pulling the Al Jefferson act.
Pierce injured, Jefferson starts putting monster numbers
Garnett injured, Rondo starts putting monster numbers
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Post by Atlanta Hawks on Oct 13, 2009 11:01:16 GMT -5
so what Manu lead SAS in FEB 2007 all alone without TD or TP and had bettr stats than KB or LBJ and beat some good teams like Dallas houston and Utah...anyone can prove himself if he gets the chance.and Al Jefferson was always good and Rondo is not the #1 or #2 scoring option when PP or KG on the floor if not he might be.
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Post by Los Angeles Lakers on Oct 13, 2009 11:13:36 GMT -5
so what Manu lead SAS in FEB 2007 all alone without TD or TP and had bettr stats than KB or LBJ and beat some good teams like Dallas houston and Utah...anyone can prove himself if he gets the chance.and Al Jefferson was always good and Rondo is not the #1 or #2 scoring option when PP or KG on the floor if not he might be. look at who your comparing Rondo and jefferson too. Manu was a 2 time NBA champion and a superstar in Europe prior to joining the NBA. what has Al Jefferson when Pierce was healthy. What has Rondo done when the big 3 was healthy, when KG went out he tried to take over the SPOTLIGHT, did a nice job getting a triple double and getting owned by Derrick Rose in the process. I don't recall Rondo killing the Lakers in the finals I remember Ray Allen and Paul Pierce doing that. you can't compare the 2 at all. not saying Rondo sucks, Rondo has become a lot better since the Celtics title, but he isn't even close to being what you guys think he should be. Al Jefferson put those GREAT numbers up while being with the Celtics and Pierce hurt, Bynum did the exact same thing while playing with KOBE and Odom on the team and helped the Lakers become a number one seed before he got injured in 07/08 and before Pau came.
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Post by Orlando Magic on Oct 13, 2009 12:27:36 GMT -5
to summarize: -- stats are not everything - TRUE! thats why we discuss -- overall rating is not everything - TRUE! thats why good overall players have good ratings (f.e. Odom is 85) and great allrounders (offense + good defense + athletism + shooting,...) have also high ratings, cuz they can do everything (Marion is no more superstar but imo still a 83-85, KG can do everything in the world, maybe not a 97 anymore but a 94-95, artest should be around 87) -- dont tweak too many ratings...just one season was bad or good dont change them by more than 2 or 3 points...with some exceptions...Brand is still a superstar...about 86/87 is good...Granger had a great season...but everybody would have done good stats with Indy...i mean granger is awesome but not yet a 90! about 86 is fine imo... -- a list with all final new ratings would be awesome
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Post by Memphis Grizzlies on Oct 13, 2009 12:37:51 GMT -5
Rondo: 83-84, after seeing this past years playoff of nearly averaging a triple double he's clearly the best of the bunch. Harris: 81-82, shown he can be the starting PG but I'd like to see him consistently improve before he gets a better rating. I dont really get your logic here. You want Rondo at 83-83 after a couple of nice playoff games but Harris who played great all year still has to prove himself? If anything it should be the other way around.
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Post by Toronto Raptors on Oct 13, 2009 13:26:18 GMT -5
Rondo: 83-84, after seeing this past years playoff of nearly averaging a triple double he's clearly the best of the bunch. Harris: 81-82, shown he can be the starting PG but I'd like to see him consistently improve before he gets a better rating. I dont really get your logic here. You want Rondo at 83-83 after a couple of nice playoff games but Harris who played great all year still has to prove himself? If anything it should be the other way around. Maybe it's just mean but playoffs are a hell of a lot more important then the regular season.
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Post by Miami Heat on Oct 13, 2009 14:39:41 GMT -5
I think Rondo should be 80ish, he was HUGE in the playoffs. He didn't get owned by Derrick Rose, it was pretty even, but even so Derrick Rose is just amazing...I never thought Rondo would be on that level when he came into the league. Nelson is another story, he hasn't done much.
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